Well, we've heard.
For $5,000, Open Design could acquire a license to design and launch a 4E project like the "Free City of Zobeck" adventure/sourcebook for Gen Con. And I could add 4E content to the first issue of KQ after August 1.
The alternative is to keep going with 3.5 until January 1, 2009, or just keep going with 3E, period.
I'm not sure whether the Open Design community really wants this license or not. The issue has been polled to death, and there does seem to be a slight preference for 3E. But like everyone else, I'd love to have the option to review the material and make a more informed decision.
So, I'm asking the Open Design community for help, with contributions to purchase a license. If the contributions don't add up to $5k by March 1st, you get a full refund of every penny.
If they do add up, any excess is refunded and Open Design buys the license. The patrons who made the 20 largest donations will be freelancers for that project, with access to rules material under a strict NDA. I hope you choose to support Open Design on this occasion.
Does this mean that Open Design is going all 4E? Well, no.
I expect to continue producing 3.5 D&D material as long as people commission it and as long as magazine readers want it. What this license does is allow the community a look at 4E. It also gives KQ the *option* to print official 4E articles, even if the magazine as a whole still offers material for 3.5 as well. My hope is for the best of both worlds.
Interesting times, folks, interesting times. I'm curious to hear what you think of it.
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open_design- Wolfgang Baur
- the Free City
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Comments
So, I think it *could* happen. But really, it's more than I can afford on my own.
From what it looks like, they're trying to (a) prevent people making 4e material before they do; and (b) allow people willing to shell out the cash to make material earlier than they would.
Because of the "no third-party until August 1" bit, there's a full month of just WotC, followed by a flood of third-party support, and that'll make it look like everyone's supporting 4e. Because, hey, look, a plethora of 4e books suddenly on the shelves in August. Meanwhile, developers will feel compelled to produce 4e material to recoup the expense paid for the right to publish early.
It's really quite sneaky.
It does make a sort of sense. Anyone who can cover the cost is presumably established in the business, which one would assume means they have a quality product. Or had in 3.5e, at least.
It's not all that different from record companies. They're becoming less willing to take risks, even though in this case all that means is green-lighting relative unknowns. And that's because risks are to be taken by the third-party.
WotC seems to be trying to put a lot more distance between itself and smaller companies. I personally wonder if they're going to start acquiring small companies next.
I don't know, it's a weird thing. The audience needs to be wowed by 4E, but publishers have to place a big bet on that before they see the rules. It's really VERY sneaky.
I think this is a terrible move by WoTC on so many levels. I'm sure there will be an outpouring of outcries --- I'm really wondering what the response will be from the fans and producers of OGL content.
Interesting times, folks, interesting times. I'm curious to hear what you think of it.
I am more curious to hear what pros like yourself think about it. My feelings are important but at the same time my paycheck is not necessarily effected by it...
Why?
Honestly, I'm not getting a lot of the outcry. Don't get me wrong, I know it sucks for a number of the smaller companies to have to wait to publish 4E material. It's a bad move for them. But, with all respect to the small companies--heck, I've got a tiny imprint of my own--I don't see this as a bad move either for the game, for WotC, or for the market.
The $5K is a curveball I was not expecting.
Even so, it's a definite curveball for the small and medium publishers. How much do you trust WotC to kick butt with the 4E launch?
But KQ's another thing entirely. If it's going to be the next Dragon magazine, it *has* to have 4ED content.
I'm really torn.
I'm afraid that there's no way for Wolf to please everyone on this. :-}
I'd love for OD to get into the mix early, but waiting a few months and getting in for free in '09 isn't a bad idea either. Waiting would give us time to see how players react to 4e, and we could provide the diehard 3e community support when few others would.
Probably worth contributing a few bucks anyhow.
What would the ultimate goal behind a 4e OD project be? Say we got the license, and came up with a kickass project that was printed by Gen Con. Would the goal be to enter the marketplace and sell the product to the world at large, or would it remain "closed content" available only to OD patrons?
Though heck, a closed content publication might be fun. Honestly, it's would be fun to figure that out.
Elaborate a bit on this, Wolfgang. This could be the deciding factor for me.
As I see it, I will be playing 3e (if I play, which is questionable at this point based on my problematical group) until well after Jan 1, 2009, so I'm in the wait and see faction.
Heck, even I don't want to update, I'd buy the adventure in a 3.5 format. And if I do want to update to 4e, odds are that I can wait until January if the adventure's good enough.
I can't advocate paying 5k for the chance to be the first out of the box. Better to be the best out of the box a few months later. After that, WOTC should have ironed out most of the early SNAFUs that are bound to happen. Plus, looking back at my collection, I can't see that I kept or use any of the really early stuff for 3e that I bought. Most of it was less than stellar. The good stuff came later when designers had some time to get really acquainted with it.
James Martin
But yeah, I can see a trailing strategy might work for some. The thing is, many Open Design patrons tend are tinkerers and early adopters.
I guess I'll know in a week or three. If no one wants to go down that road, I'll continue with 3E support for all of 2008.
I could, if I really wanted to, cough up 5K without great difficulty. While it wouldn't make any kind of financial sense, it doesn't really seem like that bit a barrier of entry. There must be some decent controls somewhere or the whole thing will leak like cheezecloth titanic.
Of course no one can put out official for sale stuff... but what about all the individual creative folks out there. I'll bet many creative players have already pieced together their own material waiting in the wings. What's to stop them flooding the internet with whatever 4E stuff they feel like cranking out. WTOC can't really stop them and it only encourages people to go bad on the OGL and just take free use of the mechanics.
I loved 2E (ducks under table to avoid rocks) and when 3E was announced it made me angry and I refused to buy into it...until all my players were clamoring for it. So...I bought the three core books and went from there. Then a few months later 3.5 was released, but I didn't buy those updates. Instead I...er...well, let's just say I have them (whistles innocently).
So now we have 4E...and the announcement and the 5K entry fee to play in the WOTC playground. I'm torn between sarcasm and cynicism and a slightly maniacal giddiness about possibly being on the forefront of something new.
I'm rambling but I really have a question: I'm not a business owner - I'm just a gamer. Is this offer of becoming a patron for individuals too? And if so, what role would one have if he were one of the top 20 contributors?
-g-
Also, for my part, I am on "wait and see mode" about 4E. I have SO MUCH 3E stuff right now that I don't see myself purchasing anything not compatible with 3E at the moment. (As a side note, if 4E would have built upon 3E and not been announced as something totally different I might have jumped on board.)
I understand Wolfgang's position here though.
Count me out right now.
I will add that it would be a crying shame (to me) if Zobeck got made as a 4E product... :( (I remember Wolfgang musing upon the idea of a system-less Zobeck...)
Patrick
I can certainly respect anyone who says, "Not for me, thanks". And if that's the way it goes, I think the Open Design direction will be set for 2008.
Could you confer with the powers that be on some of the goods? Rumblings on ENWorld point to the Q/A Piratecat posted as the SRD not being the full rules.
I'm in a position to pony up cash. Should I get a Open Design freelancer, do I need to write stuff for you?
Also -
I wouldn't mind Zobeck being stat-less. Or even better - 2 parts - one is stat-less, and the other is dual 4e / 3e.
If you want to support the 4E license, by all means pony up. You don't need to be a freelancer if you don't want to be: the project will also need playtesters and just general supporters. I'm not demanding work of the patrons; it's just that some patrons love to get their hands dirty in the projects. Others don't.
BUT, the truth is, I just redesigned the core classes, the skill system, hit points and a whole bunch of other stuff to fit my own style of play--I use 3e stuff as resources, not books I plunk down on the table for players to use. Heck, I just reworked the system to be level-less, so buying into 4e does nothing for me.
I respect what Wolfgang has going here--I like the OD concept, I like Kobold Quarterly, but if it goes 4e, I won't be helping out much with cash or resubscribing. Besides, next GenCon is going to be a free-for-all on older 3e products that were too expensive when they were put out.
Just my two cents...
As long as the system is working for you, go with what works. I can't say that 4E is any better or any worse. So far, I really just don't know yet.
Q. What about the d20 license? Will that still exist in 4th Edition?
A: We are making the OGL stronger by better defining it. We’re rolling certain elements that used to be in the d20 license into the OGL, things like community standards and other tangible elements of the d20 license.
Notice the wording here...I might be suspicious, but it seems you pony up $5k, THEN you get to see the license. What happens if you aren't happy with the conditions of the license, or which parts of the 4e game will be OGL? Well, you lost your $5k, AND it is unlikely that you will develop much, since you might not agree to the new terms.
The current 3e license is a known commodity, the 4e license is not. It is easy to gamble $5k when it is other people's money, not so much when it is your own. For instance, when we patron one of Wolfgang's OD books, we know what we are getting--he describes it in detail BEFORE we pony up cash. Here, you have precious little clue as to the quality of the new system (especially with the major rewrite we are seeing) OR, perhaps even more importantly, the quality of the license.
Of course, I might just have missed a whole conversation on this very topic, since most of the commentary here is condensed and I don't have much time to expand it... sorry if we have moved past this point already.
And these are a bunch of grognards who moan about the changes from 1ED. At 35, I'm the jailbait by several years.
But I'd just as happily wait it out a bit.
While true I would only now support 4E if WoTC (or others) provide high quality adventures that suit my group and campaign.
that rant notwithstanding I will be watching with interest and if the $5,000 reaches a critical mass of support I will throw in a donation to support the will of a community I have respect for (ie open design and Paizo).
Oh! and Happy New Year to everyone from Olde England
I am extremely pessimistic about 4e because everything I've read on WotC's site encourages the idea that 4e is not the next step in the evolution of the game I love. It is a new game.
I do not want to encourage the success of 4e.
I want to see the rules to make up my own mind.
Which do I want more?!?
Wolfgang, the patrons of the license get what benefit? Will OD5 be a part of it? Given that licensees get three hard copies of the material, what will you provide freelancers? Would freelancers actually get the opportunity to contribute anything above and beyond the normal senior patron level?
Patrons will get to contribute text and playtest feedback as has happened in the Arabian Nights project. For 4E. There may also be opportunities to contribute as freelancer to Kobold Quarterly.
I'll need to see the OGL and terms to be sure, but that's my take on it now.
This lets all contributing patrons feel ownership in the project, not just the 20 highest-contributing patrons who get to help out.
What ever happen to an Open Gaming community?!?
I think I'll go buy some Microsoft stock...because I can.
While I have some morbid curiosity about 4E I have no intention of moving from 3/3.5-it simply has too much life left in it for me. My players have myriad PCs they want to run and I have several campaign ideas I'd like to try. It truly pains me to decline contributing since I only recently joined, but 4E is not something I want to support.
Sorry
Oh, and this is why OD5 is going to be 3.5 from start to finish.