Unfortunately, that's not the case. While fans of the two editions have some crossover, the "gimme either edition" crowd is a small minority. D&D fandom seems to be a house divided.
And as a result, the next Open Design may take a little longer to commission. To make your choice easier, though, I've removed another option from the running. Court of the Shadow Fey is removed from the voting starting today, and so there's just two competitors left: 3E Tales of Zobeck or the 4E Wrath of the River King. Both will be written when and if their commissions are met. The one that meets the bar first will get a head start, the other will follow along after.
So tell me, who's on first? You can read the project descriptions and donate to your favorite here.
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open_design- Wolfgang Baur
- the Free City
Page Summary
- avidreader514 : Zobeck for the Win! [+1]
- innercaine : (no subject) [+0]
- richgreen01 : (no subject) [+0]
- lori_d20 : (no subject) [+11]
- wills4223 : (no subject) [+1]
- afbeer : (no subject) [+1]
- 99bullets : Sitting on the fence [+23]
- wyrm1234 : Off the fence [+0]
- amnuxoll : Reapportion my vote [+0]
- troyluginbill : (no subject) [+0]
- voice220 : More useful early on [+0]
- funkbgr : Question [+3]
- halo_ov_fire : For what it's worth... [+2]
- randellwolff : Vote shift [+0]
- christianaj : (no subject) [+4]
- pyitara : (no subject) [+1]
- therabyd : (no subject) [+1]
- (Anonymous) : Love what you play, but don't disparage what you don't. [+0]
Comments
I'm cool with that. I can wait a little longer for a guaranteed Zobeck book, if required.
(And I'll sign up for Wrath once I know who's on first.)
It's really kinda fascinating. Particularly in the reactions.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.p
Edited at 2008-05-14 06:57 pm (UTC)
But I also have my own question for the 4e option: Does it make more sense to jump in early with 4e and try to understand the system or let 4e hit the streets for 6 months or so before trying to write an Open Design project? I can see both sides. What thoughts do others have?
If I might ask, what advantages do you see in waiting six months? Excluding that Zobeck might be funded first..
afbeer
I am NOT SUPPORTING 4E, not now, not ever.
Not in a million, zillion years.
Not when Hell freezes over.
Not when Tony Blair is nominated a saint.
NEVER.
I guess that puts me in the Zobeck Camp.
Maybe... :)
Go Zobeck GO
Which is fascinating, because Wrath has some fey and maybe possibly some courtly elements. Clearly the edition partisanship is as strong as ever.
I can't really speak to whether 3e/4e game mechanics will be better understood sooner than later.(I play runequest) But, if I did I would have a concern about the fundamental mechanics changing. Every new system I have played has had a shake out time in which the new bits are adjusted. The problem with the shake out time is that innovative and creative "non-official" changes (introduced by freelancers) usually get lost in the shake out as the base they were built upon changes. Tables are adjusted, spells rewritten, class abilities changed, and rightly so as to prevent possible abuse. The creativity gets thrown out with the bathwater just like that poor baby.
However-and this is a big however. Any adventure experience will be more affected by the tone of the group playing than by the actual rules or written content itself. If you have a game mechanics group then wait until the game mechanics are debugged, it will save headaches and squabbles (unless you dig that, then by all means go for it.) If you have a group geared more toward dramatic interaction than rule lawyering the mechanics won't really matter as long as they don't affect the ability to get "in character" and play the scene out.
I can honestly say that never in my experience has a good or even average game system halted the adventure. But a bad game system will stop things cold in the first thirty minutes, no matter how well the adventure is written. Not that any of this really helps but it only cost me 2 cents.
Furthermore, consider that Wrath is going to be a low level adventure and that a lot of people will be starting a new campaign when 4E hits the shelves, myself included. That means that a low-level adventure will be far more useful now than in 6 months, when a lot of people have higher level characters, and the adventure might have to be shelved until a later campaign.
This is not so much of an issue with 3.5, where we have campaigns of all shapes and - importantly - levels going on at the moment.
And considering that the development of an adventure is not an overnight process (and 4E mere 23 days away), the earlier it gets started, the better! :)
Don't necessarily need numbers.
Zobeck is close, needing just a few hundred dollars to get the green light.
Wrath is needs another big burst of attention or it's simply not going be funded first. I suspect that I'll be writing it as a mid-level adventure (4+?) if it does find enough patrons.
That's my take.
We know that Wolfgang writes excellent adventures, and the fact that Wrath utilizes the "world of faerie" (or as 4E calls it "The Feywild) shows that the idea of the adventure will work regardless of rules set.
But I think that the one thing missed by Halo, and other "more familiarity with the rules" advocates, is that the Open Design process allows for us as Patrons to tinker with the rules and find the weak spots. Unlike Paizo, Wolfgang playtests his adventures. In fact, my players will do an extensive playtest of the Logue adventure this Saturday. Paizo's adventures have often been well written, but "unbalanced." Take Carnival of Tears, one of my favorite Paizo adventures, as an example. That adventure pairs unplaytested for CR legitimacy monsters with a ticking clock.
The inclusion of low CR stat damaging monsters against character levels who have little access to healing that counters that form of damage -- there's a ticking clock and the community the adventure takes place in has a very limiting GP limit for items -- has made this adventure a difficult one for my players. A fun adventure to be sure, but very challenging. Paizo doesn't playtest their adventures for balance, they assume that if the CRs match up then the adventure is appropriate. They also have the Erik Mona "lethal is okay" philosophy. If you doubt my comments on playtesting, you should check the thread on the Lamia in the second adventure in the Rise of the Runelords AP.
During the Design Process, particularly at 4th level (a low level in 4E), we will be able to work with the rules to find what works for us. This is the perfect kitchen to cook those rules in. The rules will be out in 3 weeks and the adventure production wouldn't likely start until shortly after that time. Say 2-3 months of design and you have a lot of room for finding the soft spots in the rules.
Now that I've said all that, it should be noted that I'll be signing up for Zobeck IN ADDITION to Wrath. I've already signed up for Wrath, but I've been waiting for a collection of urban adventures by Wolfgang and crew since the first project.
Oh, and it should be noted that while Wizards might sound like they are giving faint praise to the Adventure Path idea. The person heading up the project, and thus was hired by Hasbro, is the person who came up with the idea in the first place for Paizo (at least according to the Shackled City HB). That doesn't mean it will be any good, but it does hint that WotC takes the idea of an AP very seriously -- their "awesome" PR machine not withstanding.
I didn't know about the AP inspired by Hasbro connection. That's really interesting that the format wasn't picked up by WOTC just from watching Paizo, but had to be mandated again by Hasbro.
But in any case, the format works for me, and I'm a Paizo superscriber as a result.
You're correct about the 2nd Pathfinder encounter. I thought Richard Pett did an outstanding job in story development but I strongly question whether Skinsaw Murders was playtested thoroughly. There's a giant flying animal living in the caves beneath the house that can't effectively leave the room it lives in, let alone fly around and menace players... and there's more.. but this isn't the place for it.
Paizo's policy is that they rely on their writers to playtest their work. When they get busted on questionable playtesting, James admits the mistake, apologizes, and after that I can only hope the feedback goes back to the writer.
In any case, I appreciate your comments.
Personally, I think this whole 3e vs. 4e debate is getting more and more out of hand with each and every passing day. If certain gamers are happy with the arrival of 4th edition Dungeons & Dragons, then all the power to them, and I hope they enjoy it. However, when it comes to certain 4e fans calling 3rd edition "the evil that killed D&D" and hoping 4e "chokes what little life is left" in it, that's when I draw the line. After all, I more or less grew up with 3e (both 3.0 and 3.5) and learned to love the versatility it provided along with the d20 system upon which it was based. As such, I don't know where certain 4e fans get off attacking 3rd edition in the name of 4th edition, as they aren't doing 4e any favors at all. Sure, there are plenty of 4e critics who are more like haters with their straight-up bashing rather than simple detractors who prefer to offer sincere and constructive criticisms, but what's the point in stooping to the same level as the former of these two archetypes? Why not just support the game system you love and celebrate what it does right? Honestly, this glorified hate party needs to stop, and both 4e bashers and 3e haters need to grow up and let the other camp be.
So, to conclude this post, I've got just three things to say:
3e: I wish you would've lasted longer, but hey--even good things must come to an end. In the meantime, thanks for the memories, and I hope to see you again in the next life.
4e: Don't let your detractors let you down. Even if you don't carry with you the 34 years of carefully construced history as earlier editions of D&D (as Krell1 pointed out), you still have your merits and many fans who enjoy those merits. Best of luck to you and your supporters.
Fellow D&D fans: No more fighting...please. This whole arguement is lasting far longer than it needs to. Enjoy the edition you like and let everyone else do the same.